Posts by Anders Andersen

42

Beards

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i have a beard.

i spend a month on vacation with no worry from the congregation overseas of course.

i grew a full beard now and with glasses i finally have posted my picture on facebook og me... next to half life 2 cover showing i look like gordan freeman lol.

Anders Andersen

...problem solved.

Kept my privileges like reading WT.

Btw haven't seen any elder with beard here. And definitely no bearded brothers with parts on larger meetings.

42

Beards

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i have a beard.

i spend a month on vacation with no worry from the congregation overseas of course.

i grew a full beard now and with glasses i finally have posted my picture on facebook og me... next to half life 2 cover showing i look like gordan freeman lol.

When I grew my beard a few years ago, on of the elders politely talked to me about it. Basically to probe if my beard was a statement of indepence. A one man riot :-) And if I had considered that some dubs might stumble because of my beard (as if it was thát long lol :-D)

So I told him (truthfully) that I just liked having a beard, no statement intended. I saw no biblical reason to not have a beard, and that if it would come to my attention that someone would stumble, I'd be willing to shave for the sake of the stumbler (pff the things you say when you're still in )

Problem solved. Kept my 'privileges' like reading the WT.

Btw

34

I have doubts... can you help me??- A new idea

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i have been perplexed as to how to brung my wife out of jws and to exit the religion... but i had an idea last night.

i know that elders will legitimantly meet with brothers who have doubts and encourage them... not df them .. this is a sheperding call etc.. thus since my wife knows i have doubt s i could say: i want to have two brother over to discuss this ... she will agree.... of course i will hit these guys with biblical textual issues, an biology to where they are stunned and still ask... "so brothers... can you solve this conflict...?".

in this case they will not think of me as an apostate but may question their own beliefs... .

Anders Andersen

Could be dangerous...all it takes for them is to end the conversation with: "Do you still believe the GB is Gods spirit directed FDS forcefeeding truth to Jehovah's holy people?" and their sheperding call changes into an apostate search and destroy party.

I entertained the same plan for the same reason for a while, but for me the difficulties (mostly for my wife) of being DFed are not outweighed. I plan on bringing my wife out gradually without 'help' from the elders.

So only do this if you are willing to take the risk of being DFed.

31

Request for Research Help: WTS Views on Intersex Individuals

by Oubliette in

request for research help: .

several recent threads have gotten me started on an essay and i need some research help.

does anyone have access to anything the wt has ever published on intersex people (they might have used the now-outdated term: hermaphrodite)?

Anders Andersen

Oubliette,

Since I followed this from a distance, I don't know how she was really treated during the transition, and how she it treated now.

We have been out of touch for 20 years, and I don't think giving you her contact information out of the blue is the right thing to do (for her).

56

What made you turn atheist or agnostic?

by LevelThePlayingField in

if you were a jw and are now an atheist or agnostic, what was the tipping point that made you turn to it?.

the reason i ask is i have noticed that many who leave the jw's seem to turn to atheism, versus still having some form of a faith.

have many of you given up on god first or have you had atheistic views first and then found atheism to be true.

Anders Andersen

BTW I think that most who really deconverted from JW by finding the flaws in their religion, have developed the skill set needed for deconstructing any religious claim (or other nonsense).

Of course some exJW still believe, or are still Christian in some way....but I really can't see how that works? But well.... I'm a logic kinda person, not the touchy feely type that might love God and Jesus more than I ever did, and finds another group to worship with.

56

What made you turn atheist or agnostic?

by LevelThePlayingField in

if you were a jw and are now an atheist or agnostic, what was the tipping point that made you turn to it?.

the reason i ask is i have noticed that many who leave the jw's seem to turn to atheism, versus still having some form of a faith.

have many of you given up on god first or have you had atheistic views first and then found atheism to be true.

Anders Andersen

Only 3 months (or so) I started reading all kinds of subjects on Quora.com. Business, engineering, science, theology.

Of course I also read questions wrt atheism; what better way than to feel superior than laughing at them stupid atheist arguments :-D

Anyway, someone posted something along the lines of:

'If a Creator must exist because complex things and beings cannot possibly come to exist by themselves, that complex Creator must also have been created. If you accept that the Creator was not created, then you should also accept that other things and being do not necessarily need a creator.'

OK I love logic, and basically Creation was the only real evidence for God's existence (Rev. 4:11 fav verse yay), so this thought hit me like a ton of bricks.

I set out to find other/better arguments to base my faith on, but I tried to find evidence that would convince me if I weren't already believing.

Does God exist?

Is the Bible God's word?

Are JW Gods people?

First I investigated the time humans appeared on earth. It's a topic I never dared look into before....cognitive dissonance is a bitch :-(

Well guess what? There is plenty evidence humans roamed the earth way before Adam was created in 4026BCE.

Also the different scientific dating methods are actually quite trustworthy.

And....Reasoning book paragraph that tries to make the reader doubt all dating of early human remains by quoting a scientist....looked up the source material and the quote is intentionally misrepresenting the scientists position.

Score so far: God 0, Bible -1, JW -1

Thanks to Quora, I was now also aware of logical fallacies and studied those, and how the scientific method really works.

Next up was finding other evidence in favour of creation, or against evilution. Being a good boy I started with the 5 question toilet pa...eh brochure. Given the honesty in Reasoning book, I tried to find source materials for all quotes. Well guess what again? Almost all quotes in that brochure are dishonest, supporting points opposite of what the scientists actually were writing, etc. And the rest is just logical fallacies. Therefore I started to investigate evolution from neutral sources. Never thought this Satanic idiot belief (evolution) would have so much evidence, fits in with everything I know is true, and is so beautiful.

Also I found it very telling that Gods spokesmen in earth cannot provide a single shred of evidence in favour of creation, and they cannot find a single reputable scientist (in a relevant field) who supports creation.

Score so far: God 0, Bible -2, JW -100

Of course life and dead decisions are not made easy, so I set out to find evidence that supports a global flood. None exists except 'all cultures have flood stories!'. But that is easily explained by all the floodings that occur all over the world (and for which there is evidence).

And there are a lot of practical problems with the story.

Score so far: God 0, Bible -3, JW -101

And during this whole process I prayed Jehovah to show me he exists please? But as I didn't want to fall for confirmation bias ('another day! Must be a sign!') I asked very specific if he would make any brother in the hall make a random remark about creation to me, in the next 4 weeks. Apparently he was either busy, doesn't care about me, or I didn't ask with enough faith.

Score so far: God -1, Bible -5, JW -101

Now when I told my wife and later some close friends all this, none them even tried to make a convincing case for God. The smartest of them told me he will write me something to convince me. I hope he will, and finds out ttatt while writing.

Here I am, a fresh deculted atheist with a dislike of the Borg. On Quora.com I write on all topics JW to spread the bright light of knowledge burning here on the 'dark side'.

If I had been a Catholic, I might still believe. But the literalist crap JW are claiming is easy to disprove with loads of evidence. And given my JW background all theology collapses when creation story is just an allegory. If that is not to be understood literal, then what in the Bible is?

Now I'm being voluntarily shunned by my wife's sister and her elder hubby (I'm not df'ed, I don't give them that chance :-) and having a hard time with my still-in wife.

However, as the wise man Jesus of Nazareth (supposedly) said: 'The truth will set you free.'

It really does. In my head I'm free, and the Borg have no authority over me at all.

PS. Basically my story is like Daniel Genser's, except for my wife not leaving with me...

31

Request for Research Help: WTS Views on Intersex Individuals

by Oubliette in

request for research help: .

several recent threads have gotten me started on an essay and i need some research help.

does anyone have access to anything the wt has ever published on intersex people (they might have used the now-outdated term: hermaphrodite)?

Anders Andersen

I do not have a direct answer to your question, but a closely related story nonetheless.

In one of my former congregations was a boy who had genital traits of both genders. When he was born, the doctor saw this, congratulated mother with her baby boy, and that's it.

He was raised as a boy. He was my friend, and it never crossed my mind that he might be different in this respect.

When reaching puberty, he told his mother that his feelings about his gender were conflicted (read: man, I feel like a woman).

Since both his feelings and body gave conflicting signs, a test was made, and according to the chromosomes he actually is a woman.

Of course she wanted to publicly 'change' from a brother to a sister, but that would raise some brows in the hall, right? Especially since she was roving mics and doing sound dept. as a brother.

As all things in the Borg are to be arranged within proper line of command, Bethhell was contacted for assistance. Borg sent a letter that was read as an announcement that 'brother SuchAndSo would now be sister SuchAndSo, Borg approved so no questioning please'

Of course this was hot news for a while in the circuit.

I still saw her on last convention, so I guess she is treated like any other dubsis (obey and we won't harass you).

19

Request for BOE Translation!

by Atlantis in

if we could get this letter translated we would appreciate it.

we will then send the translation back to barbara anderson.. .

http://postimg.org/image/o1y62yr2b/.

Anders Andersen

Wow they gave out free video equipment in Spain? ;-)

In the Netherlands many congregations have installed a projector+screen at their own cost during the last two years.

Because it was recommended to do so.

And now they have to install 2 TV screens instead. Another expense, for which a separate donation box is set up. Leaving a useless projector screen in the KH ceiling.

Only €15 per dublisher. Which prompted a single sister with kids to ask 'do I also have to pay for my kids?' (she is without a job atm).

So I told her she doesn't have to anything!

Btw very nice to rob the spanish dubs. A lot of they are having financial issues because they don't have jobs. Some families even share appartments?

19

Noah's ark

by dothemath in

for those that believe in the flood story as genesis says, then they also are forced to accept a huge amount of evolution, way faster than any evolutionist would propose.. from a basic selection of "kinds", to the several millions of land species there are now, and in only about 4000 years.. not to mention the many types of birds that made it to remote islands, and then somehow lost their ability to fly... not even possessing wings( ex- dodo bird, moa).

scientists agree this was a process that took eons of time.. i was thinking of this because we just had a public talk on noah.

i sure couldn't make a fool of myself on that subject, going on how "factual" it all is..

Anders Andersen

For those who still believe Noah's story is real, read this thorough analysis:

http://ncse.com/cej/4/1/impossible-voyage-noahs-ark

It's well written, and everyone can understand it.

Once you've read that, you either have to agree that the story is missing a lot of 'and Jehovah miraculously made sure that', or that it's not to be taken literal.

And of course if GB as God's chosen bible explainers can't get their explanation of this simple story right, how should we ever trust their explanation of complicated prophecies and such?

19

Noah's ark

by dothemath in

for those that believe in the flood story as genesis says, then they also are forced to accept a huge amount of evolution, way faster than any evolutionist would propose.. from a basic selection of "kinds", to the several millions of land species there are now, and in only about 4000 years.. not to mention the many types of birds that made it to remote islands, and then somehow lost their ability to fly... not even possessing wings( ex- dodo bird, moa).

scientists agree this was a process that took eons of time.. i was thinking of this because we just had a public talk on noah.

i sure couldn't make a fool of myself on that subject, going on how "factual" it all is..

Anders Andersen

Ok I registered because I just had to join this discussion.

Best thing about Noah's evolution is that the Dubs actually propose it as a solution:

(Copy pasted this part from one of my answers on Quora):

From Insight in the Scriptures, a sort-of encyclopedia on biblical topics, issued by Jehovah's Witnesses, on the topic 'Ark', in defence of a literal explanation of the worldwide deluge:

The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp...

There are about 5500 different species (or 'kinds' as JW call them) of mammals we now know about.
Are they suggesting an incredible rate of evolution here?
From 43 species of mammals to 5500+ in just 4000 years?

I don't think this idea really combines with their idea that evolution is a Satanic teaching:

What ideas has Satan the Devil spread to undermine faith in God? These include the theory of evolution, moral and religious relativism, and doubt concerning the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures. We must not let ourselves be affected by such death-dealing ideology. (Col. 2:8) Daily Bible reading and deep meditation are prime defenses against these attacks. Accurate knowledge of God’s Word will fuel our love for Jehovah and our appreciation for his dealings. Such love and appreciation are indispensable if we want to reject false reasonings and keep our faith in Jehovah strong so that we can maintain a pure heart.—1 Tim. 1:3-5.